Monday, 26 August 2013

[Watch] Miley Cyrus Embarrases Herself @ 2013 MTV VMAs

robin thick miley cyrus twerk

Disney Club alumni, Miley Cyrus continues her crusade to shock America (and her dad, I assume) in her very public rebellion against her once clean cut image.

Performing We Can't Stop at the 2013 VMAs, this new new attitude was out in force- as was her tongue, ergh(!). But the bad vocals and provocative clothes weren't all, she had one last trick up her juvenile sleeve to really make sure all attention was directed her way come press write-ups. And that ploy involved Marvin Gaye's biggest fan, Robin Thicke (the E is optional).

Joining the lech for the start of his performance of Blurred Lines, Miley put those hours of twerk-school to awful use, giving the married father of one a skanky demo of her new skills. Unsurprisingly this move caused OUTRAGE across the known universe (and a few of the parallel kind, too)! From press to social media, people were left shaking,crying and vomiting after viewing the offending footage. Free counselling has rightly being offered by show organisers, MTV, for those affected [Link].

I suppose her decision to act out in this way could actually be seen as a smart move from the Diva- bear with me. For now, any criticism that was rightfully coming her way because of her awful vocal has ultimately been muted and replaced by that aimed at her conduct on stage. Surely a better result for someone trying to convince us she can sing.... you know.... professionally.

Whatever her thought process, it was the icing on the "I did not need to watch this train wreck" cake....I lie, I totally needed to watch it.



  1. Yeeeaahhh this performance was fucking terrible hahaha. Just embarrassing.

  2. I say once again, Robin's pants were so damn tight man, he has more of an ass than Miley! Hands down.

  3. why whenever females cause a stir it's because she wants to rebel against her father? never heard people say this with men/boys in the spotlight. patriarchy much?

  4. oh yes, her voice did sound terrible and the performance was just awkward and all over the place. i don't care what the hell she wore, the performance and vocals weren't entertaining or good.

  5. LOL, I remember 11 when the video of Christina Aguilera's Dirrty came out and my father said "Wao, Christina turned into a real slut!" If he could see this... I wonder what her boyfriend thinks, this is really something I would not stand.

    PS: Miley, honey, stop twerking, your butt is not beautiful....

  6. The vocals were terrible. I thought the whole performance was terrible.

    I don't think it is fair to say she has no respect for herself though. It takes confidence and guts to go up their and do that and face the judgements of America. This criticism has been levied at her ever since the performance. She knows what she is doing. I just don't find it appealing.

  7. I was in the middle of listening to Florence and the machine DD. And then you post this. Why? lol.

  8. well it was more to do with

  9. Did it make you cherish Florence even more after watching this? I bet it did! Then my work here is done!

  10. I knew it was coming, but didn't want to comment on it, there are comments elsewhere calling the performance by Miley Racist []

  11. I knew it was coming! Here are some comments calling the performance racist. []

  12. I don't think it was racist. I mean, what if it had been a black Miley and white girls? No one would have considered that racist, basically because it wasn't, it was just disgusting...

  13. I had to stop watching that awfulness before the first minute was up.

    But really DD, Miley CAN sing professionally. Just obviously not while performing hideous "dance" acts at the same time.
    And that's just fine with me, if she in future just dropped the "dance" act and just stood there and sing.

    I have come to the conclusion she isn't rebelling against her father but against the fact that really she was born into Country music and that's what she should be making. Against her "destiny" as it were. ;-)

  14. Wow, that is a striking difference.

  15. It is indeed! I am telling you...girl is fighting her destiny! LOL
    Loving her choice of songs as well. I was even okay with her Lilac Wine cover. And that one had to compete with Elkie's superlative live rendition.

  16. Too ridiculous for words

  17. Just found this which has a better vocal to "We Can't Stop". Still has her forced new persona- seriously I cringe watching some parts- but its definitely better than the VMA one.

  18. Way better! This one I could watch the whole way through.

    Leading me to wonder...are those back ground dancers or actually friends of her? Because those were extremely poor dancers I'd say who really looked like they each had one or two moves and rest of the time were clueless.
    I mean, that can't have been choreographed nor be professional dancers?
    They also didn't look very comfortable being on a stage.

  19. Is it fair to say that this was the worst performance in history of the VMA?????

  20. LOL

  21. #SHADE

  22. OMG the nailed it! o__________O

  23. Oh dear, I get the whole rebellion thing and how she wants to distance her self from her Disney past, but come on girl, have just a little bit of class!

  24. It wasn't particularly shocking to me, I'm already used to Miley's messy new image. In fact I was bored with the performance, it didn't feel like a performance, just a mish-mash of stuff. I personally have nothing against Miley, and I think she's a decent singer, I just wasn't feeling this performance. What REALLY bothered me was Robin Thicke. The man spent more time riffing (off-key, I might add) while grinding on Miley, instead of singing; it was just a big mess, adding to my dislike of the song "Blurred Lines"

  25. LOL. Love the onion.

  26. They sometimes post some funny shit!

  27. And to think..that video was posted in 2008.

  28. What I'm disliking about Miley is that her Can't Be Tamed era was already somewhat "mature" and it was still kinda classy. I'm growing weary of her now because she honestly seems like she's trying too hard, with her tongue all over the place, her head and hip spasms, all of it. I used to be a big fan of Miley, and I thought she was heading the Britney route with the easing into a sexy mature diva, but even Christina had a better time with Dirrty. I do believe Miley still has talent in her, I mean she did a decent job at the 02 Arena in a three hour show with strep throat. I guess she needs to get a little bit of crazy out of her before she can be more serious about her art. Fingers crossed.

  29. I personally love their sex house show. Hilarious parody of modern reality tv shows.

  30. This year's VMAs were embarrassingly awful. I honestly hope they bring at least two decent performers next year (JT wasn't too bad I guess). Katy Perry is god horrid, Lady Gaga needs to stop trying so hard and Miley Cyrus, there are no words for Miley Cyrus.

    Veryyyyyyyyyy disappointed, was looking forward to this too (not sure why)

  31. just a reminder that miley's "new look" is in her own words meant to "feel black" and what that has resulted is an absurd and hypersexualised creation so that's what blackness and particularly black womanhood is to her, bizzare and hypersexual, so think about that before you go dismissing the accusations of racism.

  32. I'm not sure if I should posting this but here it goes:

    "I think any culture in which we fully expect our female performers to
    come out in thongs and bras - says a lot more about us than anything

    And, while I know that Lady Gaga often appears in skimpy clothing, or
    nude, it says something when even she’s feeling the pressure to appear
    nearly nude onstage just to keep up.


    Everyone is gripping about Miley Cyrus. Actually the decibel level
    is significantly lower than when Kanye West grabbed the microphone from
    Taylor Swift (yes it is) but everyone is talking about her

    It’s very easy to slut-shame MIley, and should she have known better?
    Sure. Miley is 20 years old, and acting the ass like most people do
    at that age. Even 8 years later, I look back at things I did and shake
    my head. Arguably, nothing that Miley did on stage last night though,
    was worse than Justin Bieber - just as a human being - and no one is
    ragging on him.

    Both Miley and Justin have exploited other cultures in their quest,
    as have many artists before them. I’m not shocked, just disappointed.
    I guess I’m more surprised that no one in Miley’s entourage has said,
    “A. You can’t twerk with an ass that doesn’t exist, I think you
    actually have an innie, or stole Hank Hill’s, and B. They’re all
    laughing at you.”

    I’m not going to defend Miley’s appropriation of black culture, It
    doesn’t need to be defended because it’s wrong and I don’t find it
    humorous. Frankly, it’s moved, at least for me, from offensive to
    watch, to just plain sad and disturbing. It’s more about what twerking
    can be seen as, in context, and how that context is also applied to the
    rest of that awful few minutes.

    We’re not even going to touch on the class differences forcibly
    associated with this, but what Miley is doing is reinforcing the
    stereotype, while not taking on any of the damaging stereotype on with
    it. While she may suffer these brief barbs, ultimately, she’ll leave it
    behind her. Britney Spears collapses, and has slunk away to the
    shadows, and no one is talking about her, but she can still make a
    comeback and didn’t ruin the female pop star image any more than any
    other girl. Miley’s just taking a page from her playbook.

    This aggressive exploitation of sexuality though… we have to admit
    that it’s our society and culture that taught her this. She should know
    better, sure, but in the same vein, it’s not a stretch that she

    Not only the body antics, but the cultural appropriation. It’s like I
    said earlier with Lady Gaga, the focus isn’t on the music, but on the
    female performer’s body.

    Selling your nude form for commercialization isn’t feminism, it’s
    just exploitation carefully wrapped in the language of empowerment.
    Especially when she really didn’t have agency there. (For the record, I
    am fine with nudity, it’s the context that matters.)

    Miley’s performance wasn’t empowering, it was horrifying to watch.
    Given the audience cam, most of the audience, these agents of bodily
    exploitation themselves, were also shocked. Probably the most telling
    was the Smith family, who ended up representing our collective “WTF?” of
    the evening. (...) "

    The original Source, there's more here:

  33. I didn't know that she changed her look to "feel black", and with the reasons you exposed I do feel like it was kinda (way too) racist, but still the arguments provided in that pic are absurd to me. I don't think that she had in mind to make the girls look like her toys with that teddy bear costume, I actually think it was more like a way to "pornificate" such an innocent image as a teddy bear (which is almost as disgusting), but yeah, now it looks kinda racist to me...

  34. honestly, i think her whole appropriating and performance of working-class urban black culture is like some sort of disturbing postmodern minstrelsy

  35. Sorry I didn't really underestand what you meant, could you explain it to me please?

  36. I agree with pretty much everything the article says, but there are two points of it with which I can't. The first one is that one saying "Miley is 20 and acting the ass like most people do at that age". I don't know, maybe it's because life circunstances made me mature earlier, but I don't feel like I could do something like that when I reach the 20's, and I don't think any of my enviroment could either.

    The second one is the one that says that no one has raged at Justin Bieber for doing the things he has done. I think that pretty much everybody has hated on him for what he has done (and also hated on him before he did such things). Just as an example, the rough but true scolding Bon Jovi gave to him in an interview after Justin had showed up three hours late to a concert.

    I understand that after so many years of being identified with Hannah Montanna she had to rebeal, but there's a limit. Christina herself rebealed and became a little slutty with Dirrty, but at least she compensated it with other empowering songs such as Beautiful, Fighter or I'm OK.

  37. as in the whole new act is about reinventing herself and removing her disney image and she's decided to do it by taking elements of black culture that she thinks are cool and 'ratchet' and thus hypersexualising it. i mean 'twerking' has its roots in the nineties it's just funny that now suddenly white people have decided it's amusing enough for them to badly imitate. in essence it's like some sort of postmodern minstrelsy in which she's performing a racist black caricature for her own commercial gain. the fact she was surrounded by black dancers is clearly not some sort of coincidence, she's openly acknowledged that her new image is one in which she's trying to 'feel black' and it's inexcusably racist.

  38. I am just wondering when did "twerking" become a protected black cultural expression and are we really supposed to think that is a positive thing?

    Also why have I not seen articles such as this when Black people "appropriate" white cultural expressions like say..ball room dancing?

    in other words...anybody calling "racism" on this really needs to look deep in his own back pocket and see if they maybe misplaced their last remaining braincells there.

  39. Have to confess...don't know that one. But aren't reality shows in themselves already parodies of reality shows?

  40. Yeah, she might have taken that view from videos of black performers. Of course, for them it's okay to depict black womanhood as bizarre and hypersexual *hi there best selling Rihanna* because after all, they are just expressing their black cultu...oh wait.....

  41. "...I can't remember if I cried

    When I read about his widowed bride,

    But something touched me deep inside


    "...I was a lonely teenage broncin' buck
    With a pink carnation and a pick-up truck
    But I knew that I was out of luck

  42. I have to agree. I don't think I would do what Miley did or is doing right now when I turn 20.

  43. She's trying to hard to be "bad." Miley this isn't cute...nor does it fit you. Just stop..please..

  44. She also needs to fix the deep wedgie she has..

  45. I think they make fun of themselves without knowing lol.

  46. because the accepted definition of racism is one where discrimination AND power are both in play. in other words, we live in a society where white people hold power. black people ball room dancing isn't detrimental to white society, white people taking 'twerking' away from its cultural context and hypersexualising it however is. and who are you to say twerking isn't a positive thing for black women? is it too sexual, too 'slutty' for you? because that's misogyny. im currently about to write a dissertation at university on gender and race issues so i think rather than telling people calling out racism for what it is you maybe need to go educate yourself and understand how cultural appropriation of poc cultures is harmful and racist.

  47. the worst part is that her butt is flat and somewhat deformed???

  48. Utterly disappointed with the performance...the best part was the look on Rihannas face. And shame on Robin for stooping that low

  49. Oh pu-lease. You know nothing about me and my education so LOL on you trying to lord you writing a paper which obviously lacks any original thought and is just perpetuating today's American PC babble over me.
    At the very least wait till you get your grade before you do that.

    I truly hope you are not writing that paper in English for an American university but I fear you are. ( I can practically guarantee you a B in that case right now btw)

    Shaking your ass in a clearly sexual manner does not become any more than it is just because it is a black ass.
    And it is utterly laughable for you to claim if a white woman does it it's "hypersexualizing" ( a euphemism obviously for making it "slutty") but if someone says it is just as hypersexualized an act if a black woman does it, that is misogyny???
    Sure dude, this lesbian feminist is a ''misogynist". ROFL
    Do you even get how utterly hypocritical your words are?
    Take a tip from me, get someone else to read your "dissertation" before you hand it in.

    Btw ask any white racist how detrimental to white culture it is when black folks "appropriate white cultural expressions" and no doubt , he would also be able to explain away his racism. And if he had the same amount of education you had, in some equally PC sounding words at that.

  50. IT WAS HORRIBLE, SHE WAS HORRIBLE. Nevertheless i didn't think she cared on how she sounded cause she sure had fun and she was dancing so she maybe got tired.
    If only CLASS can be bought i'll definitely buy lots of that and pour it to her!

  51. i still find it baffling you arent very critical of miley considering her behavior recently and how we cant stop is the epitome of someone crying for attention talking about popping mollies and doing lines of cocaine

    i love those two videos of joline and look what they've done to my song
    and its sad shes more known for we cant stop than for her talent because she can sing when shes not trying to keep up with the wild pop stars

  52. This is terrible and disgusting.

  53. I am not very critical? I clearly stated I couldn't get through a full minute of this awfulness.

    I have not heard of her behaving badly but my remarks here have all gone to her music.
    I disagree with your take on We Can't Stop. I think it's just a pop ditty about having fun.

    As for it being sad she isn't know more for stuff like that, maybe that is because people prefer to just focus on a performance like this one at the VMA's and her daring to twerk rather than see what other music she does?

    Frankly I also don't think you really have a grasp on my thinking so I would guess a lot of my views baffle you. ;-)
    As a guideline you could try to remember I did not grow up in the US of the last 30 years. Generally, the values and world view US society today holds...not mine at all.

  54. "my father likes to slut shame women and i think it's funny, teehee."-leith

  55. i was speaking in general as far as blogs, media and magazines go. a woman's decisions seems to always be a reflection of whether she is seeking the approval or disapproval of her father. it's offensive, speculative and i think it's utter b.s to even suggest it unless it comes out of the horse's mouth.

  56. yo jay z has totally called miley out are her racist appropriation so shhhh

  57. Yo I don't give a flying fuck what Jay-Z thinks. My only reason for mentioning him was the fact that the dude is one of several major players in pop music bizz and...he is not white.

  58. yeah of course cause oppression is suddenly invalid if a few people from that group make it thanks for enlightening me

  59. Dude, I think that was out of line, first of all because even I, who love Christina, thought that she had got way too "Dirrty" in that video, and second because my father was always very respectful to woman, and I think that for just ONE comment he shouldn't be criticized. Haven't you ever called someone a faggot or have made a joke about cancer? because I could get mad about it too and tell you that you were offensive or even worse, imitating you in a silly way just like you did to me. You shouldn't be such a Flanders...

  60. Yeah, you WOULD read it like that. Sure you don't want to call me a racist for appropriating "yo" while you are at it?

    But since you claim to appreciate enlightenment, I will spell it out more clearly for your benefit.

    The point of discussion was a popular black cultural "expression". You claimed it was racism for a white girl to use it and used the role of black people in American society as some kind of argument.
    I simply pointed out that black culture is hardly as powerless as you painted it to be and nd that therefor that argument holds no water in this particular discussion.
    I used a few names as an example but you have got to really be blind if you do not realize black cultural expression has an enormous influence on white society as well and really has been far from powerless for many decades.
    Black ordinary people, yes, they are fairly powerless but black cultural expression? Far from.

    Here's my theory on why some people are all that upset about Miley's use of twerking. I think it is because when it is taken out of strip clubs and hip becomes clear, even to it's fans, that twerking simply is nothing more than a hypersexualized or "slutty" act.
    And nobody likes to realize they like something many others will see as rather uncouth

  61. i'm afraid you're missing my point. what i'm trying to say is that 'blackness' isn't a single dimensional identity. Rihanna is black woman who is clearly comfortable with her sexuality, an issue which i have no issue with: it is her body and she can do what she likes with it. you can criticise rihanna for many things and rightly so, but shaming women for the fact they are happy with their sexuality, even in the face of a multi-billion dollar industry designed to make women feel awful about their appearance and spend vast sums of money to change it, is problematic. The issue with miley's vma performance isn't for me so much about the sexualised nature of it, (thought her basically becoming an accessory for robin thicke towards the end of the performance is a whole other feminist issues), it's the fact that she's deliberately appropriating what she sees as blackness, which she has openly admitted to herself, and hypersexualising it. for her, blackness is a single dimensional identity, and that's the crux; the important part. rihanna as a black woman is a person, she's more than just an object on stage, whereas miley's performance of blackness is a singular, one dimensional caricature. for her, blackness is nothing more than being 'urban' and 'sexual' and that's problematic because black people have and continue to face the stereotyping that they are somehow more sexual than other people. when miley gets off the stage she gets to get rid of that mask of 'blackness', she's a very rich white girl who was raised by a already famous father and a household name by the age of 15. While she gets to have a little play with her facade of what she thinks it is to be black, black people, especially urban and working-class black americans don't get to do that. They have to deal with the consequences of being stereotyped as vapid, unintelligent, and overtly sexual.

  62. i've responded to your point about rihanna to me further below in the comments and hopefully that's give you a better idea of the difference between being black and sexual, and playing at being black and sexual is hugely difference and carries a multitude of other narratives with it and i hope that makes my position more clear.

  63. The quote of what Miley supposedly said came from the duo which wrote on the song We Can't Stop and was her explaining the sound she wanted for that record.
    Which was then delivered written and produced by a black record producer along with Miley and several other writers. Couldn't find all of the names but several of said writers also were black.

    If that finished record turned out to be as single dimensional expression of the urban black culture, obviously there are a couple of black dudes to blame for that as much as Miley could be.

    This quote is now being plucked completely out of context and tied unto a performance which simply was awful and would have been awful whatever color the performers skin.

    And if you really want to blame anybody for the hypersexualized image of that Black urban culture it is utterly ridiculous as well as incredibly incorrect to blame Miley Cyrus, or indeed any other white chick twerking.
    That blame in fact falls squarely on the shoulders of the black entertainers and producers of black urban culture itself.

    Your whole line of reasoning was valid for what it originally was used for but out of context in this matter. It simply is not an example of that situation.

    As for vapid and unintelligent impressions. Maybe you should not judge Miley on this media hype utter BS(no doubt the result of Gaga disappointing as fodder for the expected media flurry following such an event as the VMA's). maybe you should learn a little more about her actual world views. You will find this girl is neither vapid nor unintelligent and certainly not a racist.

  64. @Hannah Bring in the popcorn!

  65. Just finished my reply above though why you act as if I dragged Rihanna into this I have no idea.

  66. This is called attention whoring.

  67. I agree with you there. My new theory is Miley heard gaga will perform and just like everybody else expected Gaga to come up with something outrageous. She probably figured if she wanted some spotlight as well she better try to be as outrageous as Gaga. Not expecting of course how Meh Gaga turned out to be, Miley now, probably unexpectedly, seems extremely outrageous in comparison LOL
    Best laid plans...

  68. i happen to think ariel levy is the worst SORRY and you did just kinda suggest that black people are responsible for their own stereotyping of their image as overly sexual and you continue to slut-shame like sorry but in excusing racism and sexism you are complicit in it. you have previously called yourself a feminist but i'm afraid your feminism is nothing if you simple care about modest white women.

  69. because you literally just defended miley by slut-shaming rihanna further below in this comment section??????

  70. I forgot I mentioned her yes. But already gave my view on Rihanna in my other reply. And no, that was not a defense of Miley but reference to the same point I made in that same reply regarding who is actually to blame for the image of black women as being one dimensional hypersexualized people.

    I also gave my view on Rihanna's supposed sexual confidence at length under the review for that bathtub video a while back.
    I remember then to the person arguing me tried to make out as if my issue is with sexuality or women who are sexually confident. It is not at all.

  71. But it all stems from this whole andrea dworkins/ariel levey narrative with feminist theory that i think is hugely counterproductive. are there problems with sexual exploitation within industries from pornography to popular music culture? of course. but telling women to put a cardigan on a cover-up is simply another sexist way of dealing with it. i love rihanna because she literally doesn't care what the world thinks about her. she knows she's an attractive woman and she's happy to show that off. more power to her. the point is women have the right to do either. my issue with miley's recent performance isn't so much the sexualised nature of it, minus her becoming little more than a prop for robin thicke towards the end, but the fact that if she's going to play at being urban and black then she can't just stand on a stage surrounded by black people dressed as animals bent over getting spanked and then parade around as though black urban womanhood is nothing more than bending over a waving your ass in the air. if that something you want to do then more power to you, but there's more to blackness than that and that's the reason that black representation in mainstream culture is problematic. an incredibly privileged white girl masquerading around on stage in a way that she perceives to be a 'black' way further reinforces the belief that blackness and sexual promiscuity are synonymous with each other within the wider american (and indeed western) social consciousness.

  72. And lying the blame for years of misogynist Hip Hop videos at Miley's feet is helping black women becoming empowered?
    Of course you would think Levy is the worst. You obviously completely bought into the raunch culture as being "feminist".

    And again with the attempt to imply I think women should be "modest" just because I don't think a woman using sex to sell her music and/or herself is an example of an empowered sexually liberated woman.

  73. "I love Rihanna"
    well, now we are getting at the crux of your argument with me LOL

    At least you don't see women as one dimensional. You see them as two dimensional. The one dimension being represented by a woman looking and acting much like any woman selling her body on the street, the other some uptight cardigan wearing woman.

    Way to completely ignore my reply and arguments and to simply repeat your ridiculous and over the top claims while ignoring any and all facts.
    Like I said, Miley's supposed statement was a quote by a third party and supposedly her explaining what SOUND she wanted for her record.

  74. Vinicius Ferreira Mendes27 August 2013 at 20:04

    My 2 points:

    1 - It seens like the public is taking this way more seriously than she herself took.
    2 - Her performance was very effective... She is getting the biggest attention among people that performed over there and her sales got sky high.

    I also believe considering the other 2 divas performances over there, she is getting way more shit than she deserves... Gaga's was bad on a particulary unmemorable way and Katy's was damn boring.

  75. Vinicius Ferreira Mendes27 August 2013 at 20:13

    I also don't believe she was trying to be sexy, or beautiful or impressive... The whole thing felt like she was making fun of her image, of people expectations of her and of the criticism she receives for not being Hanna Montana.

  76. im saying women should be entitled to wear as little or as much as i want without the sort of judgement all over this comment section. (i'm not aiming this at you strictly but there are a lot of slut-shaming comment here that i find hugely distasteful). i think you suggesting i'm somehow sexist and viewing women as 'two dimensional' when i'm clearly just saying "hey, how about we let women do what they want with their bodies and not call them whores and sluts cause we may not choose to do so ourselves" is an incredible cheap and baseless shot but if that's what you're going to resort to doing then i feel sorry that seem to lack the capability to understand this very simple point i've made. you're clearly still stuck in the mindset of the madonna/whore complex and i'm afraid most feminist and gender theory , with a few exceptions like ariel levey have moved on and aren't still stuck in the early 80s. like we're clearly not going to agree and i'm repeating my arguments because you're clearly missing them all. I can't say i'm a huge fan of rihanna musically but in terms of her general attitude i think she's great. i'm sure miley is a nice enough girl too, but if you can't see what's wrong with a white girl surrounded my black women dressed as half animal while slapping their backsides (because you know stereotyping black women as having huge 'ghetto booties' is hardly a racist thing that's never been done before) then i think you're being very ignorant. on the issue of miley not describing herself but the 'sound' of her music, she's clearly admitting to wanting to borrow from black culture. there's nothing wrong with being inspired or respectfully participating in it, but this desire to having music 'sound' black has clearly seeped into the accompanying aesthetic and persona that she has adopted.

  77. Awful. So awful!! There aren't words!!

  78. Again you ignore the facts regarding that quote. Well ostly. You are also trying to now turn another something completely innocent into something entirely different

    I am not stuck in any Madonna/whore complex mindset. My accusation was you are.
    And I said so based on your actual own words posted rather than prejudiced assumptions.
    You are putting all kinds of views on me I never stated nor adhere to. You are just full of prejudicial views on me, on rich white girls, on Miley and by all accounts on Levy as well because she actually has quite a different view from Dworkin.

    Kind of ironic since your whole attempt here is to argue against prejudiced views.

  79. the madonna/whore complex is a problem perpetuated by people like levy because her work is largely rooted in a binary conception of gender. in her 'female chauvinist pigs' she talks about women seeking liberation through becoming 'like a man' and womanhood being thought of a lesser than manhood. it's rooted in this structuralist understanding of gender as a binary or in a levi-strauss understanding of womanhood and representing the 'other' or what masculinity isn't. basically, this whole understanding of gender as some sort of binary thing is an old argument that only really continues in feminist work in the arguments of more mainstream or populist feminism. of course levy and dworkins differ they were from different generations but levy was certainly inspired by her, she wrote the forward for dworkin's "intercourse" rereleased in i think '07. i'm veering of topic now but the point is poststructuralist understanding of gender through the work of the likes of judith butler is far more grounded and indeed groundbreaking and provides a nice lens through which to view the limitations of levy's work. like this discussion has clearly lost its way. i believe miley's performance was racist and you don't, but your ideas around female public sexuality are clearly founded in your reading of levy but her work has considerable limitations.

  80. Did anyone see Rihanna's reaction? Her face read (in my Bajan voice), "Bitch, been there done that.... Sit your ass down and leave the whoring on stage for me. I'll teach your ass how to twerk, bitch, now come with it."

    But anyways, am I the only one who isn't surprised that Miley did this? I mean "Can't be Tamed" was a big sign of such raunchy acts to come...

  81. No, my ideas are not "founded in reading Levy"
    I enjoyed her observations because they matched mine.

    And frankly, I wonder if you even read her book or simply learned about her book. Because that recap is extremely limited view of what Levy was actually saying in that book

    You certainly getting off topic wildly.

    We better not get into the latest "gender theories" or a misguided individual like Butler. Or this thread will end up the longest in this blogs history.

    indeed , you made your case on how Miley is a racist( because no, you didn't just claim you were talking about this performance. ) and the supposed damage this generally accepted to be an awful performance will do to the way white people will see black women.

    I made mine why that is a nonsensical claim.

    Best to leave it to the reader to make up his/her own mind.

  82. So does anybody believe the concept and how to execute it were all Miley?
    Because personally I think that was some choreographer or art designer came up with that act mostly. And I think. seeing as it is being called "racist" and Miley essentially a "racist", that would definitely be a point of interest. As would be, considering the accusations of appropriation of black culture, the skin color of that supposed racist.

  83. Vinicius Ferreira Mendes27 August 2013 at 23:07

    I always found her performances concept to be pretty "unique" on the sense that they simply seen to match her for a while now... So I wouldn't be surprised if the overall idea was hers (like "I want to go crazy on stage and twerk") and the "racial insensitive stuff" either was her idea of her label trying to step the controverse up.

    Funny enough, she is working with mostly black musicians, she is collabing with a lot of rappers (4 so far), and even Jay Z gave a shout out to what she is doing... Going as far as clarifying he wasn't being sarcastic.

  84. LOL I am confused now as I have just been told Jay-z agreed with those who called the act "racist" ?

    I am sure Miley came up with something vague like " black and Urban with twerking" as a concept. Likely she also added ..with shock value. But I am talking about the one who came up with the costumes and choreography and all those aspects now being used to "prove" what a racist act that was.

  85. Vinicius Ferreira Mendes27 August 2013 at 23:31

    This was media, his fandom and her haters understanding it this way...

    There are people questioning if she is being racist or not, but is seens like this isn't an issue among the hip-hop musicians... They either support it or don't care about it.

  86. yes, I see how these things can be explained both ways. But I thought Josh was referring to Jay-z reacting to the VMA performance?
    This is all older stuff.

  87. Vinicius Ferreira Mendes27 August 2013 at 23:44

    I don't think he said anything about it... Not on his twitter for sure. Funny enough, most people bashing her are white themselves..

  88. hey i didn't explain myself on the jay z issue properly, he hasn't said anything about this but he's subtly called her out for her 'twerking' on his last album. and in regard to the mainly white people bashing her argument that's because hey it's mainly white people who has a voice in our society. azealia banks (a controversial one herself, i know) has called her out on it, as have various non-famous black commentators. Also in regards to levy, when i said she was awful i was definitely caught up in the heat of the debate, i actually think she's previously made some decent point, but i think her arguments often run a thin line between legit criticism and just misogyny. on the issue of populist feminism, i just think that it's a fine introduction and i certainly don't think feminism should be an esoteric thing, but that there's a lot of more ~~~academic~~~ (for want of a better word) feminism out there that disagrees with feminist appropriation of marx's idea of true consciousness, which is a foundational aspect of levy's raunch culture, and so i think levy's work is and has been subject to degrees of interesting criticism that should be noted because populist feminism has it's limitations.

  89. Vinicius Ferreira Mendes28 August 2013 at 00:04

    Calling what he did on that track "subtly calling her out" is just a possible interpretation, and IMO a biased one by people annoyed by her. The song is about black people getting powerful and taking over the cultural industry (what is actually happening, headed by the Knowles- Carter family among others), and there's no stronger evidence of it than one of the whitest cultural symbols possible out there (a Disney starlet) embracing hip-hop and being embraced back.

  90. Well, Here's an opinion from a Miley fan. I watched this live and I was extremely disturbed, I actually had to look away. The thing is, I KNOW she can sing and I KNOW she can perform well and she can rock a performance without doing uncomfortable movements. This was so wrong on so many levels and it's not what she needed right now. Her name alone sells her music and the VMAs would've been a better time to promote "Wrecking Ball" and give a stunning performance.

    Who knows what the truth behind this all is? Before the VMAs I remember her saying that she wanted to create her own moment, but this was DEFINITELY not the way to do it. The vocals were all over the place and the foam finger will never be ripped from my mind. I haven't watched the performance again because my mind is so disturbed. She's a talented girl and doesn't need to do this. Her charisma and talent can drive her performances. I've already accepted her as a pop star with "Party in the USA", so, this incident was unnecessary. But the free publicity may benefit her in the long run. I hope she returns to grace with a better performance

  91. "...The foam finger will never be ripped from my mind." LMAO!!! +1

  92. Okay, I indeed misunderstood when Jay-z said what you referenced.
    I read up on that whole thing and disagree with your interpretation of it as you used previously.

    I took no offense at you calling levy "awful" tbh. I just disagreed there to with your interpretation of what she said in her book.

    There's a lot of more "academic" feminism disagreeing with the theories you speak of as well. That's academics in the non exact sciences for you. ;-)
    Levy's book btw is not an academic work nor does it claim to be one. IAnd I can't imagine anybody being under the impression it is.

    And that is the second lesbian feminist you accuse of "misogyny".
    You do realize that word means hatred or dislike of women or girls? Just because you criticize the behavior and choices of one small group of women, doesn't make one a misogynist.
    I would also say the bandying around of such accusations as "misogyny" or "racism" willy-nilly is not much different from "slut shaming"
    It is in all cases an attempt to shame a person you don't like or don't agree with into silence.

  93. I agree the performance is disturbing lol but the vocals were ok, quite shaky and a bit pitchy but it's obviously because she was out of breath. The twerking in front of Robin was very degrading IMO but maybe all of this is part of a plan, I don't know :P.

  94. Some people just can't sing and dance at the same time while others can. I for one never get out of breath while singing and dancing unless I'm like going from floor to ceiling in leaps in bounds. And plus their is many techniques and illusions you can use to save your stamina.

    #1. Don't put as much effort into dancing as your back up dancers, because you still have to sing.
    #2. When you have to go to the "break down", stop singing and just dance.
    #3. Do more hand choreography. It looks far more impressive and doesn't take any stamina to do.
    #4. Stay away from heavy back tracking, so at points go into melismatic showoffy rifforamas.
    #5. Bob your head wildy to give the impression that you have great breath control, but don't break your neck in the process.
    #6. Stay away from low notes, and light passages while dancing because they are guaranteed to be shaky.
    #7. Belting and dancing simultaneously generally allows for less shaky vocals while while dancing.
    #8. When you get out of breath, hold the mic into the audience and let them sing parts of the song, lol.
    #9. If you do get out of breath, project your notes, stand still and tighten your diaphram to add consistency to your breath control.
    #10. To combat getting out of breath, mix dancing with bobbing, walking around the stage, and high octane belting. Make sure it is balanced and be extremely self aware.

    Guess who does all of these things? Beyonce... For one, she is one of those singers who can dance and sing without getting too out of breath, on top of the phenomenal skills she has acquired over the years. The same can be said for Micheal Jackson. Bad examples of this is Chris Brown, Ciara (as of lately, she has been performing amazingly), Keri Hilson (God knows she has horrible breath support), and Justin Beiber. 3 of the 4 listed are utterly amazing dancers but still could learn a lesson or two on breath support and learning how to work the stage.

  95. Lol before I got to the end of your comment I was like yeah that's stuff Beyonce does. Singing only with metallic modes allows the voice to be kind of locked and solid, as opposed to breathy and/or light singing. But still you have to have a very solid technique to be able to dance and sing at the same time.

  96. Women AND MEN need to keep their clothes on and behave with some decency and respect in public. You can't subject everyone else to your filth just because YOU feel like it. A lot of things should be kept indoors. Anybody who would go on television and do what she did is a whore plain and simple. Robin Thicke is a man whore if he knew it was coming and allowed it. If people don't like hearing plainly and simply what they are ("shaming") then maybe they should behave a different way? Act as you wish to be perceived. As far as I'm concerned a whore, whether male or female, needs to be shamed. Keep it covered and put it away. Children watch that show. You think it's okay for someone to be doing that in front of kids?

    You seem to have some huge problem with Miley wanting to sound and appear black. Rihanna, a black woman, does exactly the same things Miley here is doing. What if Miley took inspiration from Rihanna? You say it's okay to be inspired...well there you go. You can't blame one person for stereotyping a whole race when there are people of the same race doing it as well. Are you saying it's okay for Rihanna to sound black while acting like a slut just because she's black? If Miley was singing Polka while stripping would that make it okay? The consensus from this seems to be that Miley is a country bumpkin. People are looking down on white people for it. I don't think Miley's intention is to bring the black race down. I think she's just desperate to make people like her and fit in. She wants to be the edgy cool kid. Sadly this is the route she's taken.

    And it just hit me, you say it's okay for someone to take inspiration from black culture and you seem to think it's okay to act like a slut. "NO SHAMING!!!" But you have a problem with mixing the two of them? lol.

  97. omg eww miley just stop

  98. Nope. He actually said he respects her as a serious artist. So you should probably "shhhh"

  99. I know we have our difference and whatever Opie, but omg I cannot agree with you more on this issue! Sure she was 'slutty' and depraved but racist? give me a break. absolutely ridiculous.

  100. Well there ya go! Even you and I agree it's absolutely ridiculous.
    Let's have a toast sanity can prevail even over other disagreements!

  101. misogyny isn't a term you can just pluck out a definition from the dictionary to define. throughout feminist theory misogyny has been used not simply to define straight forward hatred of all women but also sexism aimed at women who do not fall into the misogynists accepted categories and definitions of what is acceptable. pretty much everyone, you and i included, hold misogynistic ideas because we are raised in a society that is misogynistic, the way to deal with this is to accept it and attempt to unlearn and change. so yes, lesbian feminist writers can hold misogynist views. it doesn't make anyone an awful person, it just means they've been raised within a sexist society, like everyone else, and therefore will undoubtedly say and hold problematic views.

  102. OMG did you just invoke truthiness. LOL

    Of course anyone can be a misogynist. But ya know, I'm just saying...let's stick to calling only those misogynist who actually hold misogynist views.
    And no, that does not include anybody who ever criticizes any woman for her choices.
    And same goes for "sexism".

  103. I guess that's why Britney and Janet lipsync that much. They sing mostly airy.

  104. ahha, Josh, I'm clearly a guy. Not from the US though, I live in the UK. also, thanks for this debate, i think it's been interesting and i respect your opinion and whatnot and have a good day. just one last thing on the comment from someone about mainly white people bashing miley, i would direct them to the self-styled "Queen of Bounce" Big Freedia from New Orleans and his reasoning for the racial problems raises by miley's vma performance and other appropriation of twerking.|otr|cst so yeahhh thanks and stuff, i think we started of rocky but we came through in a good-natured way, also please don't think i was calling you a misogynist, i just think feminism that seeks to police women's actions for any reason, even an ultimately pro-feminist one,is problematic and risks being sexist in it's own, albeit different, way. :)

  105. this is honestly one of the most ridiculous arguments i have ever had put to me. i am laughing too much to even begin a response

  106. Well, many think I am a guy because of my tag but I am not. Could be a number of reasons why you used Josh and I didn't want to assume.
    And yes it certainly has been a ,to me as well anyway, interesting debate.
    We might have bored everybody else silly I fear but ...such is life ;-)

  107. This is actually a really interesting article written about the whole race thing. Made me pick up on things I never saw first time round. Interesting for anyone who wants further reading on the controversy.

  108. I personally don't find this act terrible because of it being such a blatantly sexual and obtrusive act. I find it terrible because she was attempting to twerk and failed miserably. I mean FAILED!!!! Twerking is first a science, then an art form. You can't just get up on a damn stage and think that you know what you are doing. If I was at the VMA's I would have booed becuase Miley doesn't have the ass let alone the skill set to be twerking. I love Miley and undestand that the pivotal moment when she went through the rebellious teenage state came extremely late for her, but I'm getting tired of Miley attempting to shake her nude crapes.

  109. take a read of that. You may not agree but I think it'll explain more of what @Josh is saying.

  110. of course it was speculative. Hence the "assume". In fact her dad tweeted today saying he would have done the same thing in her shoes. Joking I'm sure, but it's odd how her brother or boyfriend-who also have twitter accounts- didn't feel the need to comment, or jump to her defence in the aftermath of the show. But once again that's me being speculative. Result of too many murder mystery shows, me thinks.

  111. It was just so bad. I'm not sure why she's so keen on brining up the actual word "twerk"- I mean, she even came out to it being said. Surely she realises by giving her convulsions a name people will actually youtube it and realise how awful her attempts to do it are. She's practically shooting herself in the foot!

    If i were her, I'd have just carried on doing my thing, but not referencing what i was trying to emulate. I was even surprised to see her NOT disagree with an interviewer who called her the "Twerk Queen" -! Sure, she didn't agree either, but c'mon, she should put a stop to stupid titles like that catching on considering how bad she is at it! Even i'm more deserving of that title- and I ain't even a woman!

  112. I don't think Miley is racist, but I sure think she's ignorant and insensitive. I also think this new Miley- if what she says is true- is of her own orchestration.

    However, watching back the performance today was even more uncomfortable- especially with things like her putting her hand around one of the dancer's necks, the objectifying of that lady's butt and having black women dressed literally as objects ( teddy bears). All things I wouldn't have noticed unless I'd read a woman of colours point of view on the situation.I'm not saying I agree with everything said, but I sure appreicate how someone can be offended by what they saw- especially with the reflection that has come with the 50 year anniversary of the DR Martin Luther King speech.

    I've read a few of your comments below, some that I was truly shocked at- especially regarding that of blacks perpetuating there own stereotypes- so I'm not expecting any agreement here, but please do take a look at the article [].

  113. I think we pretty much discussed that aspect in this thread, Josh and I did anyway. Don't think many others were interested.
    I personally think a lot of such reading of racism in such things is at the very least as much a result of the reverse racist views of the person reading it into the situation.
    But that's my view on it.
    I also think calling someone a racist or guilty of racism is quite a serious accusation.
    In this case it's Miley. because of this reading into, I would, like I said before but nobody seems to have an answer, like to know who actually designed the details of Miley's act.
    Because I for one do not believe Miley came up with those.
    So I would really like to have that information.

    And once we have discussed Miley's actual input in those details which now are taking as demonstrating her supposed racism, we can discuss, is Miley guilty of racism or should this 20 year old white kid from privileged background really be criticized instead for not realizing how some people will read that act?

    And should that white 20 year old really be made the scapegoat for decades of Hip Hop and Pop videos and lyrics,made and designed and performed by black people, portraying black women as "hoe's" and mere pieces of hypersexualized meat?
    And any generally negative impression that might have created in the minds of the undiscerning audience viewing and listening.

    And then we can also discuss...really who exactly holds that supposed view of black women Miley is now according to many "critics" solely responsible for?

    Because just taking myself and many people I know as an example for a sec, it's exactly that message portrayed in those decades of Hip Hop and some pop stars videos which made us dislike and avoid the genre. Because we already knew that is an offensive and wholly unrealistic view of the average black women.
    I can honestly say, at this point still, first woman popping in my mind when I think " Black women" ...Whoopie Goldberg. A thoroughly impressive, multi facetted and very intelligent woman.

  114. I did and I replied. I would like to point out here that you feel white Miley should be criticized for something you yourself admit you also " wouldn't have noticed unless I read a colored woman's point of view"?

  115. Just because she is bad at it, she shouldn't call it what it is?

  116. Are you kidding me.." a science"? An "art" form?

  117. Well in my opinion, what she's doing isn't twerking. She's attempting to twerk, but she's not quite achieving her goal.

  118. Well I can attempt fencing. I will suck at it but I will just go ahead and still call it my attempt at...fencing. ;-)

    And I will have to take you guys' word for it regarding her "skills". I find "twerking' to be in poor taste and utterly unsexy and can't stand to see it from anybody. I therefor never saw enough of it to judge "skill" levels.

  119. Its not often a human can truly make my skin crawl but congratulations Miley, you did it!

  120. On the upside...NOBODY is talking Gaga. ;-D

  121. True, lets not forget how much of a blessing that is! However if they start I will happily unleash this upon them ;)


    This article aptly describes my feelings for miss Cyrus in a way I didn't think possible

  123. The awkward moment when five guys dressed like girls twerk better than you:

    And although it has nothing to do with the topic, I felt too bad for this dog to not to post this:

  124. its like me saying I'm ballroom dancing when all I'm doing is spinning around the dance floor with a partner. That isn't ballroom dancing no matter what I call it.

  125. Obviously not every woman of colour is going to feel the same way about the performance, but who am I to argue about someone's feelings RE: something I have no understanding about. I haven't lived the life of a black woman, I haven't experienced what they have, so I'm not going to discount their feelings towards the performance when they are clearly more informed than mine- and to be fair, yours too.

    ".I am going to leave this discussion until I have regained enough
    emotional distance to see the funny side of a male starting up
    criticizing "appropriation" of cultural symbols who then resorts to
    accusing (lesbian feminist)women of misogyny and a white dude who
    himself failed to see what he criticizes a white girl for not seeing.

    As for that, if that is about me, the difference is I WANT TO LEARN. I'm willing to read up and change my opinions when people who are the ones I am slighting tell me something. I won't automatically change my mind, because people have agendas. But heck, I'm willing to be taught and to learn- which I'm sure you've realised by now- so please impart when I'm being misogynistic or racist or sexist. I might not agree, but I'll sure take it seriously before I come to a conclusion.

    Finally, who said I'm white?

  126. your status as a lesbian and a woman doesn't absolve you of misogyny just as nobody is absolved of being responsible of misogyny that is literally all i was saying but way to take my point of view out of context. i was merely shocked that accusations of racism were being dismissed so rudely when plenty of woc have aired their views that what miley cyrus did at the vma's was insensitive and no-one has the right to tell an oppressed person that their feelings and their oppression is invalid when they clearly have grounds in the arguments their making. your extension of raunch culture to twerking is also a total misapplication but w/e i guess how dare i tell a white feminist that her feminism is racist the feelings of woc have forever been ignored why change that here. i would also direct you to the first paragraph of DD's comment below because i am in absolute total agreement with it.

  127. If you go to a ballroom dance class, attempt the tango and badly fail. When you come home you will still say to your friends. I went ballroom dancing today. If you are honest you might add..I sucked at it.
    You will not say " I went spinning on a dance floor today" because if you did that, your friends will say " HUH?"
    And then you will have to explain..."I went ballroom dancing today and I sucked"
    And if your friends are anything like me they'd say at that point...well, couldn't you have said so from the start? ;-)

  128. Of course it bloody does! It is simply ridiculous to accuse someone who loves and cares about women i.e. a lesbian and a feminist, of "hating/disliking women".
    The two are contradictory.

  129. LOL I just got that impression from your different statements. Are you saying you are not white? I apologize for my incorrect assumption in that case.

    I never said you should discount anybody's feelings. I say you should not think just because someone feels something that it is a fact. Their feeling is, but their interpretation of the thing creating that feeling might not stroke with what actually happened.

    "the difference is I want to learn"
    I'd say that implied accusation is pretty rich if that was directed at me.
    It is btw one thing to exercise empathy and see something through the eyes of another, it's another thing to learn from it. Learning, I'd say, requires you take that other person's view as well as your own, attempt to offset them to the facts as far as possible and then try to draw a rational conclusion.

    Just seeing through the other person's eyes and then completely dismiss your own original experience of something and adopt another persons view on something...wouldn't describe that as "learning". I'd call that emphasizing. Learning is the step that comes after that.

    I btw never said you were misogynist or racist or sexist.
    I pointed out that you yourself claimed not have seen it until after you read the article yet you jump on the bandwagon of blaming someone else for ...not seeing it.

    And Josh is the male criticizing "appropriation of expression" while in the same breath implying he is a feminist where as I am a misogynist and a sexist.

  130. Free Speech means you can say what you want but you also face the consequences of such and that included being called out on your problematic views.
    Cultural Appropriation is a thing that exists, it is well documented, and it has wider reaching oppressive effects. A refusal to acknowledge racism in your feminism means that your feminism is actual not very feminist and i'm very sorry i had to be the one to break it to you even though the message appears not to be going through.
    Only one black artist won an award at the VMAs, despite hip hop and music rooted in black culture dominating the music world, and that was Janelle Monae who was awarded off camera. We can draw comparison with lgbt* representation when we consider the rise of Macklemore, largely on the back of his support for same sex marriage, who is a white hip hop artist that has received huge amounts of support for his stance, yet can anyone even name the girl who sings on the track, and actual queer woman herself. he is heralded as being the first hip hop act to take a strong stance on gay rights, (at least this was the way he was introduced by Ellen when he performed on her show), and that totally erases the work of plenty of gay and pro-gay BLACK hip hop artists that have been around forever. I mean Grace Jones was doing it in the eighties! The point is, you can't call yourself a feminist if you ignore race issues, just like you can't be a gay rights activist while ignoring race or gender. Social identities do not operate separate of others and your refusal to understand how miley cyrus' use of black women as props and subsequent appropriation of black female identity is racist means your feminism is white imperialist.

  131. Actually I do know the girl as I read an article on the whole issue of Macklemore. :-)
    If I hadn't though, I'd still be clueless on both her and this macklemore tbh.

    Thanks for calling my views "problematic" "misogynist" "racist" and "white imperialist"
    What you are "breaking to me" is that in your opinion your view is the absolute correct one, mine is incorrect and 'problematic".

    Just because you are colored and call racism on something, doesn't mean it is racism.
    Hate to break it to you but, your skin color and the skin color of the one accused does not make you automatically correct. It is however incredibly racist to assume it does.

  132. Well I think from that we're kinda on the same page. Like I said, I don't think Miley was being racist or is racist, but I found it interesting, and enlightening to read the opinions of those who think what she did was questionable. But that doesn't
    mean I'm always going to buy into someone's reasoning just because of their proximity to an issue. Often those
    closest to it can be emotionally blocking themselves from seeing the wider picture or, even worse, be out and out biased.

    For instance, Macklemore has also being facing criticism about his involvement in hip-hop primarily because he is a straight white male [ /]. In this case I don't agree (at all) with the criticisms being levelled. But it doesn't make it any less interesting to read why people think what they do. After all I can't disagree (or agree) with something unless I'm aware of it first.

  133. calling someone 'colored' is p damn racist oH MY GOD I AM ACTUALLY DONE

  134. Clearly you are done. You stopped actually reading anything I said round a bout my second comment I would say. where the hell you read that I said calling someone colored is racist is beyond me.

    Now to get back on subject. Had you not distracted me with the non reading and wild assumptions and accusations, I mights have told you a long time ago...

    I personally am not interested in the whole black Urban scene because I am not black American urban. I would indeed feel silly acting as if I am or pretending their cultural expressions are a reflection of my reality.
    In fact, I already think it's silly for black kids in any country but the US to appropriate those cultural expressions, let alone white people.

    But I simply disagree with anyone calling a 20 year old out for racism for trying on a different identity the way any psychologist can tell you just about every young person will do several times on the road to maturity.
    Especially when clearly. rightly or wrongly that young person does so out of liking that culture.
    Had she done some deliberate parody intended to ridicule the culture, that would have been a different matter. But from all accounts that is not the case with Miley.

    I think it is ridiculous to call it racist anyway if someone of one culture likes another culture to the extend of wanting to be a part of it.
    I also think pulling the racist card in this case, in a society in which that accusation carries such weight, is nasty as well as unfair and incorrect.

    And finally I find it way over the top to blame Miley's one video and one performance both within the last year, for the way Hip hop videos already have been coming across for decades to any casual viewer who is not of black urban American.

  135. And to the two idiot cowards who upvoted your comment on something I very clearly and absolutely never said.... Can you please show at least enough courage to pretend to dare attach your person to your votes already. if you hate me so much, come out and be at least somewhat open about it. Instead of always upvoting any obvious hate comment directed at me as "guest votes".

  136. "Just because you are colored and call racism on something, doesn't mean it is racism." IT'S WRITTEN CLEAR AS DAY.

  137. Indeed we are much on the same page actually it seems. :-)
    I don't know Macklemore. I only first heard his name this week when I decided to click and open an article on that criticism and whether it is justified.( posted the link to that article in my reply to Josh)..even though i had no idea who any of the people talked about were.

    I have to admit I felt a bit aggrieved at the implication I am not interested in reading how other people view matters or don't take those other views into account.
    Much like you expected me to realize that of you, I had hoped you would also have noticed I try very much to take note of other views and other tastes etc.
    I mean, I almost always check out any link posted by either you or any other poster. I might like or dislike. Agree or disagree but I thought it was clear by now, never without informing myself at least somewhat.

  138. it is indeed. What that says is that just because someone is colored it does not mean when he/ she accuses someone else of racism it is indeed true that person accused is guilty of racism.
    You really are not reading what is actually written it seems but solely what you prefer to think I wrote.
    Ironically that is exactly what I say is going on with the people interpreting Miley's actions they way they do.

  139. but calling a person of colour 'colored' is racist you can't call someone 'colored' christ

  140. ROFL okay dude, I will change it to black if that makes you happy. Even though I really meant with that people not just "black" but of any group considered non white.
    English is not my mother tongue and the term simply to me meant exactly and literally and only that.

    But way to prove how you like to call just about anybody "racist" for just about the tiniest and most meaningless mistake.
    Rather than actually reply to the content of what I prefer to call "racism" on an innocent linguistic misunderstanding.

    I stand by my words, many of the people calling "racism" these days really need to look in their own hearts before the next time they shout "racist". And obviously you should both count yourself amongst those AND failed to do so.

    But if it makes you happy to believe me a racist, misogynist sexist, live long and prosper hon! I hear the living is good in fantasy land.:-)

  141. Hahaha I hope you do Stuey, I hope you do!

  142. HAHAHAHA yeah that's the only upside.

  143. Haha Opie it is a science and an art form.

  144. I just read an article where the creator of the foam finger was saying she disgraced it hahaha!

  145. 'negro' used to be considered a polite term during certain eras doesn't mean you can just use it. i tried to be polite but ur an actual dick, it's truly incredible to behold. have a nice life

  146. ROFLMAO at the display of hypocrisy coming from you.

    You tried to be polite? When was that ? When you were calling me a racist? or when you called me a misogynist? Or maybe it was when you called me sexist? Possibly when you told me I hold "objectionable views" because I don't agree with you.

    Or maybe you considered yourself being polite when you were complaining about "appropriation of other people's culture" mr Josh, while in the same breath informing an actual woman what is the non objectionable correct feminist view?
    But Oh ho, you have now given up being polite and after your whole discourse on feminism and "slut shaming" you call me a..."dick"
    And again, I can just use negro if I want. I can even use " nigga" and "hoe" as long as I have the correct skin color.

    Have the NAACP responded to your admonishing them for being racists yet?

  147. the NAACP didn't change their name because of a history of it's use but you certainly do not get to use the n word thank you very much. and i'm pretty sure starting out by suggesting that i was guaranteed a b grade for my dissertation when i literally mentioned a couple of themes i was interested in wasn't the politest way to begin. added to that the fact that i'm actually at a top ten uk university and holding a first class average i was a little shocked by that. but typical white people, it must so horrible and feel so oppression not being able to call people of colour a word that has been used for years to accompany their rape and murder, i can't imagine how hard that must be. jfc

  148. Damn and I just decided not to add that remark of understanding the anger of a guy posting what he thinks is some kind of proof of intellectual status and finding his opponent thoroughly unimpressed by his ability to babble thought other people had and wrote down in books and articles for him to remember.

    Dude, the fact that you list what kind of university you attend or your class average in and by itself demonstrate you are not very bright.
    And pssst your racist views on white people are showing!
    Now I am also a rapist and murderer because I state the simple truth that I indeed CAN use colored people or negro if I want. Again, my right to do so has been guaranteed by my country of birth ratifying the universal declaration of human rights.

    Really interesting how racist you actually show yourself up to be.
    I fear if I keep you talking just a little bit longer you will tell me your view on the final solution against racist misogynist sexist raping and murdering white women such as myself.

  149. LOL no Hannah, it's shaking your ass. All it requires is the ability to execute one particular move ass that'll shake.
    I understand Miley lacks both.

  150. "i don't care about black people being used as props in miley cyrus' performance because i think twerking is gross and slutty what i care about is why am i not allowed to say negro or n****r" is basically what we've gathered from this and honestly the fact you continue to protest your innocence at the charge of racism is laughable because anyone in their right mind can see how overtly racist you have become in the last few comments.

  151. actually twerking involves a number of different moves including the thigh clap, the shoulder hustle, and peter pan, to name a few so it's not just 'shaking your ass'.

  152. Not quite. I mean, that is true, but one needs the skill to be able to twerk. There are plenty of people who are thin like Miley and can twerk like the Mapouka Goddesses of Cote De Ivoire.

    Miley uses poor posture and too much back articulation while attempting to twerk. Not only that but Miley tries to twerk like a woman far more juicy than she is. I mean bending over and vibrating should be done by a woman (in the 5'5 category as Miley) that weighs at the minimum 140 lbs. Miley is about 110-115 pounds at the moment. She is too lean of a strip of bacon to get the jiggling affect she tries to get while vibrating. I'm pretty sure she could pull it off when she weighed around 135 lbs and had some meat to throw. Anyways, Miley needs to have an intelligent delivery when she twerks. She is a bit to wild with her antics. She dishonors the Mapouka Gods with her lack of skill.ROFL, but on the flip side, Miley would be a kickass speed twerker with some practice though.

    Also, take "twerkology" and "assology" lightly because Hannah and I study it only for kicks and swells LOL, (though we do take it a bit seriously for the most part).

  153. I think "winding" is the best twerk move. Takes some pretty intricate abdominal manipulation as well as perfect back articulation to pull it off.

  154. I personally beleive people have a screwed up sense of what counts as racism. In this region of the United States, we use race as a descriptive a lot (I mean a lot!)) and it can come off as offensive to someone who is not used to it, and for the most part it is completely coincidental. I don't see how this Miley Cyrus performance is racist though I can see why someone can think it is. Considering Miley at one time stated something along the lines of (not quote for quote but something similar) "I wish I was black," how can I honestly be surprised that she would be up on a stage with plenty of big bootied black women twerking with bears on their back. Sure it is objectifying some black women for their asses but it is not quite something that falls under "racism" in the degree that some people think of it.

    People view racism as deprecating and belittling upon a particular race but Miley didn't quite imply that with her performance. I mean to an extent, she must have some type of appreciation for big bootied black women if they are up on a stage shaking what they ate chitterlings and cornbread to get. To keep me from rambling, I'll word it this way. Miley is probably living on that, "We girls have been subjected to belittlement and sexism by men for far too long and we need to show them that their double standards only can go so far..." state of mind which is perfectly understandable. As a result, the fact that she has big bootied black women dancing backup for her isn't really racist IMHO.

    But I'm only a black kid from Southwest GA who has been subjected to racism for a third of my life, moving from country life to poor dank city life where racism is still a very alive thing so what do I know? (I know that is a run-on sentence LOL) :)

    Is it offensive? It is up for grabs. Is it unnecessary? Sure bettya. But is it racist? Not quite.

    I think we agree.

  155. People from the inside looking out can have quite the dilapidated sense of perception. Not to sound rude or insensitive to the people who believe the performance was racist but it simply was not... I am not a cultured child. My family is single tracked, closed minded and quite a bit racist. They are always on the edge of their seat to spot something racist in the media and innately, so am I. Nothing from Miley's performance came off to me as racist in any form or fashion. For those that did, I question exactly their exposure to racism on an individual level. Not to say that one can get a better understanding of what is racist by having first hand experience by dealing with racism on a personal level, but from what I've seen, those who have dealt with racism on a personal level seem to have a better sense of what can constitute as racist or not. Cute right? I mean, anyone with a good critical eye, can really tell if something is done with racist intent or not.

    I just hate when something controversial is done multi-racially that is not necessarily racist, and how racism can come up. I guess, this world wouldn't be quite as enjoyable without racism....LOL

  156. Dude, you really are one delusional individual. The only overtly racist comments here are from you.
    " but typical white people, it must so horrible and feel so oppression not being able to call people of colour a word that has been used for years to accompany their rape and murder"

    I pointed out the hypocrisy of having different rules for different skin colors and being okay with that while at the same time going around accusing other people of being racists.

    Also I only used the word negro in response to your claim I "cannot say" it but it was you who dragged that word into the conversation.

    Which btw anybody can see for themselves. Making you a liar and a blatant one at that.

    You putting words in quotation marks I never said nor even implied other than in your delusional reading of everything I post ...another blatant lie.

    I certainly never complained about not being allowed to say them.
    I in fact pointed out to you that legally..I am allowed to say negro.
    And I never used the word "n....r", ever! ( another blatant lie)

    And anybody familiar with my comments knows I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to use such words as "nigga" and "hoe". I in fact have made my displeasure over their use by one regular poster here very very clear.
    Another blatant lie from you therefor.

    Iow your every sentence in above comment was a blatant lie.

    Not even the claim that I "don't care" about Miley's act is true. I several times called it a "godawful one" ( and the use of any term with god in it coming from this atheist is a strong indication for anyone who knows me just how awful I thought it was. But I grant you your ignorance on that point. How would you know that about me when you don't even know what I wrote in this discussion?)

    "first class average" ROFLMAO
    Dude, you are blinded by racially inspired hatred, rather call people names and as stupid as to post blatant lies.
    There's nothing "first class" about your intellect whatsoever.

  157. LOL I pretty much take you and Hannah's assertions re twerking as mostly exaggerating for comedic effect. Though I do think you guys actually do also like that kind of thing. :-)

  158. I think we do indeed BlackRobin. :-)
    That's pretty much how I see it. I also feel that some of those elements used as "proof" of racism could be interpreted in a different manner.

  159. I'm not sure about your final thought there myself but yes...I agree that a lot of people shouting racism these days seem to forget about the "intent" aspect.
    I am not going to be setting myself open for yet more misreading but suffice it too say, the very reason you suggested had crossed my mind as a possible explanation as well.

  160. LOl that might be a case of too much information.
    But even if it is a skill, still not an "science" or "Art" ;-)

  161. HAHAHAHAHAHA @ the RIhanna impression.

  162. I also, wonder how it managed to backfire when you stated that what Miley did wasn't really racist. I mean shouldn't the logical reaction from this Josh person have been, "...whatever keeps the controversy and conflict down..." It is interesting nonetheless. I'll be rereading this conversation all day until I can see his perspective more clearly. For now, all I can see is that he has a screwed up sense of what constitutes as racism, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

  163. Well yeah obviously me and Falco talk about twerking like this for shits and giggles but it definitely takes skill to twerk well. Everybody, ass or not, sure as hell can't do it.

  164. Butt to beat coordination is hard even for trained veterans.

  165. LOL it's good to not jump to conclusions. Good luck to you.
    I am still wondering how my making a point that a black person calling racism doesn't mean he's right just because he is black, turned into the claim I desire to use the words "nigga" ,"hoe", negro and farfetched of all...n....r.

  166. I am willing to admit to it needing skill. But I. decidedly draw the line at "science" and "art".
    And I won't change my mind on that I tell ya!

    Not even if you threatened me with having to watch Miley's entire performance ...twice!!!

  167. Haha I know right!

  168. Calling someone 'colored' is not racist. Maybe old fashioned haha, but not racist.

  169. I don't believe Miley's intention was to be racist with this performance. I do not believe this performance was racist, however I do liken it to a minstrel show. I mean I don't think she meant it to be that way but her twerking was like her slapping on blackface and drawing giant pink lips on her face. The reason her transition to the 'urban scene' has personally bothered me is because I feel like she's using to solely to break out of her Disney mold. Like if you love hip hop and you wanna make hip hop, that's fucking great, I don't care what race you are, but don't make a farce out of it.

  170. But from what I understand, she does genuinely like the genre.

    I believe like with the twerking, she isn't making a farce of it, she simply sucks at it.

    Which is logical seeing as , even if she loves it, it really is not her background and I believe, intelligent as I think she is, she is just too young to really understand the living situation of urban black America.
    I don't think I really do either btw, but seeing as I am from poor working class and poor living circumstances and was an inner city kid until I was 9, I think I get it a tiny bit better than Miley.
    Lucky for me, I was born in a very different society plus not a member of a minority.

    But still, I think I get it enough to know Miley likely doesn't get it.
    I don't think that is something one can blame her for though.

    I do think if she doesn't wisen up in a year or two...THEN we can start blaming her. ;-)

    But all in all, I think she truly likes the genre and doesn't get it but also is just a kid searching for her own identity lose from her class or personal background.

  171. fact of the matter is, she is a 20 year old WOMAN and she is no longer a child. her decisions are a reflection of her not her parents. why isn't anyone saying robin thicke is acting out against his father alan thicke or that he isn't making his father proud? oh yea, because he's a MAN whose sexuality/actions is his and only his to possess not his parent's.

  172. you implied in your first comment your father would have said something similar or worse about miley cyrus's performance than what he said about christina aguilera's video. if i were to say, "wow, look at those faggots." each time i saw homosexuals on tv one would assume i'm homophobic, right? so, how is that any different in assuming your father is a slut shamer if you implied your father would probably call miley cyrus a slut if he saw her performance?

  173. "I, who love Christina, thought that she had got way too "Dirrty" in that video."<--- this is completely irrelevant and it sounds like you're justifying your father's supposedly "jovial" comment.

  174. Because one thing is to make ONE comment and the other is to say that my father "likes to slut-shame woman". By that you're implying that that's something my father usually does, and it's nowhere near to the reality. Also, homosexuality is a practice that doesn't harm anyone, what this lady has done is offensive specially since it was supposed to be apt for all people, kids included. Plus, what if it had been a man and I had said that he's misoginistic and that he behaved like a slut (I don't know any masculine form for slut, sorry)? Would you have said the same?

  175. Yes, I'm justifying it because it was just that, a comment. He wasn't trying to harm anyone, he DIDN'T harm anyone. Seriously, haven't you ever made a slightly offensive comment?

  176. The issue is not that she can't twerk. It is jsut Miley isn't an skilled twerker. I mean, their are tons of girls in Miley's weight category who can twerk better than those one hundred thirty- one hundred fifty pound big booty Judy's we have girrating around youtube. LOL. Miley, simply doesn't twerk to the limitations of her proportions which, in my culture, fighting body language. We save the speed twerking for the skinny girls; the nimble, agile twerking for the meaty girls; and the sloppy flopping for the thick misses.

  177. Horndog doesn't have the same negativity connected ...of course. A male "slut" is considered something to look up to. ;-)

    Really think that children argument is beside the point. It's the job of the parents to pay attention to what their cihldren see. Not the artist.
    And if one hears MTV ,the VMA's, one can already guess what kind of acts might show up.

  178. HAHAHAHAHA 'she simply sucks at it'. Okay. I'm not sure if she really likes the genre, but then again, we'll never know that for sure, cause we aren't her.

    However, it kinda seems like you are implying someone has to have lived an inner city/thug life to get and make hip hop music and twerk...I don't agree with this and I apologize in advance if this wasn't what you were implying. But I don't think she has to 'understand a certain living situation,' to make hip hop.

  179. I know that it's parent's work to control what they children watch, but come on, did anyone expect Miley to behave like that?

    When I said slut I didn't really mean a girl that makes out with a lot of boys, but a girl that behaves.... like that. I know that Miley doesn't make out with lots of boys, but I can't think of another word to describe what she did.

    About the male slut being admired... believe me, not many men consider a girl that makes out with many boys as something bad, it's usually girls who don't see it well.

  180. Let's not get into how men view girls with many sexual partners.
    I anyway would have to speak from third part accounts either way LOL

    Considering Miley's video for the same song as, I'd say it's not unexpected she'd sex it up. But I meant, if not Miley, then some other act might. I mean Robin's uncensored video ran into censorship. It's not up on youtube.

    I am going with Miley's act being crass or vulgar. Either will do as far as I'm concerned. ;-)
    No idea how you would say that in Spanish.
    My Spanish is essentially non existent. But I love the word sonrisa. That's one of those cases where I feel it covers "smile" better than smile does. :-)

  181. Opie, this ass right here is an art form and the way she moves it, science.

  182. Glory to the Mapouka Goddesses!!! She did them justice!!!

  183. The twerking in this video has some of the best butt to beat coordination I have seen. Warning is vid is pretty much pornographic but the twerking I'm referring to is at about 1:00 minute into the video.

  184. "Vulgar" also exists in spanish and yeah, I could be used to describe it, but sounds kinda light to me. Now that I think of it I can't find a word even in spanish: all of them sound to me too light or either too heavy (I mean, they don't sound heavy to me, but they will surely to Nope Nope). Anyway, it's been 5 days since then, I think it's time to move on.

    BTW, I never thought of the word sonrisa to be beautiful, but now that you say it I see that it actually sounds pretty ^^ It's a pitty that most people in Spain think that spanish is an ugly language...

  185. LOL just suggested that moving on as well...minds thinking alike and all that eh? :-)

    These people who think Spanish is ugly must be suffering from self loathing. I love the sound of Spanish!

  186. I refuse to watch that when it's accompanied by singing. Let alone if all that woman has is ass shaking.
    I'd sooner watch the riveting action packed "science" and "art" that is bowls. ;-)

  187. No really? It's "pretty much pornographic"? Well colour me surprised! LOL

  188. First off all..I don't equate inner city with thug.:-)
    And sure, anybody can make music in any genre. If you however do so while not really "getting it" ,that's when you become a ...hipster.

  189. Twerking isn't pretty much all twerking videos can be on YouTube, this isn't a twerking video, it's a music video for The Dream's song "Pussy" and it's pretty much porn so it was banned from YouTube, but there just happens to be some twerking in it.

  190. It's not accompanied by singing....

  191. Okay, I get what you're saying.

  192. LOL yes, thus negating for me any and all reason to watch the video.

  193. Twerking was spread through hip hop and ...strip clubs. The whole purpose of it is to sexually turn on. That is how it was used in both scenes. IMO if you take that aspect away, you are left with noting but a muscle exercise.
    Something which, so it strikes me, is a lot more fun to do than to watch.

  194.'s beautiful...

  195. I've actually never thought of twerking as sexual....but I know not everyone's me. I guess I don't see it as sexual because I find it hard to believe that any man (or female) could get turned on by it.

  196. LOL Well, you know what they say..."beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

  197. Might be hard to believe for you but it is nevertheless true. Mostly men though.